facebook mail cont.

Hey dude, i stumbled upon your note. Didnt want to refresh the note on the homepage or get potentially embroiled in an intellectual discussion so chose not to comment on the post.

Like many people before me, i spent a long time reading through the note, plus all the comments. It totally replaced my revision schedule! Must say i am very impressed with your knowledge and logical thinking. You have my respect for having the guts to stay true to your views.

I can relate to what you have went through. Though ultimately my previous relationship didnt end because of religion, it was a barrier that will surface inevitably - unspoken, hidden but very real.

I know it's been a month since the note was posted, and i sincerely hope you are feeling better now (other than exam stress of course!).

I believe humans are adaptable creatures, we learn to focus our attention on imminent subjects. That does not mean we can forget sorrow easily - it is buried somewhere, somehow. For me, the temporary reprieve is good enough to reduce, or should i say, delay the pain. I hope you have found yours.

Well... In a nutshell, take care dude. And see you around in school. Oh ya, good luck for your exams too!

facebook mail cont.

Hi there. I dont know you but I read your post from other people posting links to your note. Just wanna say it was fucking awesome. I'm an ex-catholic and I've made plenty of arguments on my own before quitting. Great stuff. Btw, the christianity isnt the only religion originating from the middle east with a story of a great flood in it. I took a mythology class in uni and it taught that the Mesopotamians had plenty of weather-disaster-due-to-gods stories as the area they were in was very prone to poor weather, flooding especially. Hence their religion was quite depressing in comparison to the egyptians who were a short distance away, and they celebrated floodings instead as the silt the flooding brought onto the land provided fertile soil for farming. So yeah. Good luck with everything. Cya.

facebook mail cont.

Hi Jansen: i am a XXX professor at XXX, a voracious critic of religion, and a fan of SM, RD and their ilk. a colleague of mine forwarded your letter to your girlfriend, and i enjoyed it. you surely deserve better, and i am very glad to know that you have moved on.

unfortunately your circumstances in singapore is not very uncommon, and i have many students who have related the same story to me. incidentally, i have noticed, its always the religious girl threatening the agonostic/non-believer guy, at least in heterosexual relationships.

and unfortunately, unlike you, many of my students havent really had the courage to say no, and therefore ended up in the church with all its stupidity. i wish there are more like you, who can stand up, say no, and pursue a more fulfilling life.

facebook mail cont.

hey you may not know me, but my friend showed me the letter you wrote and i admire how much time and effort you have acty put in to write this thing. after all i understand how you feel totally as i have been through it just a few months back.

other than that, i think its quite cool to know that i was from dhs and tjc as well, and soon to be in nus. that makes me your junior since a long time back. thank you so much for writing all these down as after reading it, i do feel a little better. i had once thought of doing what you did, but i know that once some things are over, they cant be changed. i was left pondering abt what i had done wrong for the next few months. until today, i am not fully over the girl although i have no choice, but to suffer in silence.

know you are the innocent one and the victim in this situation, and there isn't much you can do even though you'd want to. writing this letter down probably let you vent your disappointment, grief and anger by alot. hope you are feeling alot better after this. you have my 100% support because i have been in the same boat, and i totally cannot understand the rationale and reasoning behind their actions.

haha well hope to make a new friend with you, and if you like i could share my story with you also. then maybe if you know that there are many others like you around, you wouldn't be feeling so bad.

hope you have a great week ahead, and take good care!

cont

haha you dont have to feel too bad about yourself, can always find another person again. i know its hard but have to force yourself. for me is just waiting for uni start and hopefully can find someone that is definitely not christian.

yea i have been with my ex for 2 and half years before breakup. she was initially a freethinker, but converted and kena psycho-ed into church and all. when she convert i already wanted to let go cuz i know its v troublesome, but she kept assuring me that we just had to respect each other religion and all. so for 2 years, i lived with it and was totally agreeable with her going to church and doing her religious stuff. i nvr knew a problem existed until she repeatedly forced me to read the bible and to go church, of which i rejected kindly. but just like you, at the peak of our happiness, she suddenly told me to convert or breakup. and when i know i could not bear to leave her, i said i would convert for her sake. but then it was too late, she just din want me back anymore. i knew it was stupid but i think at that point of time, the most impt thing was still to keep her. now i do realise how stupid i would have been if i were to convert. living a lie for the rest of my life. ya lo that was my first ever relationship, and i was totally serious abt it, and it had to be spoilt in the hands of a christian. damn.

yup i guess ppl like us are v tolerant of other religions and beliefs, but is usually the christians that wna force this and that, and make it the no 1 ultimate supreme religion, of which i think is bullshit. god this god that, god wouldnt have caused all this if he really existed.

from that day onwards, i have a v strong anti-christian view, even though im alright hanging out with my christian friends, so long as they dont try to preach or convert me. as for the girl, i have deleted all contacts with her, and not talked to her since that day she left. i feel it will aid me better in healing rather than trying to hang on and wait. you shld too. no point keeping. well, take this as a v painful lesson learnt. you and me have learnt it the hard way.

thanks for replying man, i know you are losing weight, feeling stressed, and always thinking of it in the middle of the night. just hope i can be someone to advise and share my views so that you will be up again in no time. haha. hear from you soon again.

facebook mail cont.

hey Jansen, I may not know you in person but, i'm glad i got a chance to read that masterpiece of yours titled "Letter to a Christian Girlfriend"
& your writing, content, language & structure wise, is simply brilliant
i'm amazed by the amount of research you did for this piece
its really awesome & i'm really enlightened after reading what you wrote :)

i used to date a Christian & things were going well bcos both of us already acknowledged the fact that we are of different spiritual beliefs (i'm a Buddhist)
but we compromised, bcos we believe being happy is the most important consideration
there were times when people will bring up the issue and just a couple of weeks ago, the parents finally spoke to me about it
thats when i realized, this is not just about the 2 of us
dating a Christian is like, besides dating his family, i'm also dating God

okayyy maybe that sounded weird but yea, i threw a fit about it, asking him why did his parents do that
i know it wasn't his fault as through out our relationship, he was giving in alot & putting in effort
he wasn't that kind who would force me to attend church every Sunday
sigh its just sad that we are apart although we are still very much in love
but i guess this is life, although people always say love triumphs all evil (wait, or was it just me?), at the end of the day, religion does play a factor

my atheist friend has this motto of his own "religion separates people" & i can't agree more
i'm not sure how long ago was your break up but i hope you're feeling better already :)
me on the other hand? i can't seem to let go yet
so...i'm attending church on Sundays, for i would want to see whats the fuss is about as well as to understand the religion
i also tried reading the Bible
i know to others is like, i'm doing this entirely for him
but for me, i just want to be happy
& if continue seeing him makes me happy, why not?

oh gosh i realized i just wrote an essay !
pardon me & thanks if you've been reading till here
oh yea the purpose of writing this message, is just to let you know that piece of writing really helped me, & i believe for others as well :)

facebook mail cont.

Hi Jansen,

I know you wrote that note more than a month ago, but i have to say i really admire and respect the way you've put down your beliefs and arguments in a way that is logical and well reasoned. Regardless of whether it will change believer's minds, or serve as a rallying point for agnostics and atheists, it is an amazing piece of writing.

I hope you'll be able to move on from your relationship and find someone else soon.

facebook mail cont.

Dear Jansen,

I refer to your Facebook note, "Letter to a Christian Girlfriend". I know you wrote it more than a month ago, but reading it makes me feel the need to respond, because everything you say seems to strike a chord in me. I am sorry to hear about your breakup, but I trust that you have since moved on, or are moving on.

Everything you said is something I have thought, and articulated before, albeit not as well as you have. I have had my own personal encounter with Christianity which I don't see the need to reveal the details of, but like you, I have found inconsistencies in the religion (even without really reading the Bible like you have) that in my mind I am unable to reconcile, that makes it impossible, simply impossible, for me to accept the religion. I have been confronted with the prospect of believing in the faith, and have carefully deliberated it, perhaps for a year... After which, I returned to my starting position, the only difference being that this time I could confidently say that I had made an informed decision (previously I had been blasphemous but without a sound understanding of the religion).

I have many Christian friends who are truly great people, but I am afraid it does not change my perception of the religion. To say that I am completely, spiritually self-sufficient would be at least sometimes a lie. But to adopt a faith that I do not truly believe in and whose loopholes are staring in my face, is simply unacceptable to me, and highly hypocritical. I may not be as smart as you, but I think I can confidently say that I am someone who, like you, reasons and rationalises. That is probably why I cannot see myself ever taking the "leap of faith" which many Christians, and people of other faiths for that matter, have taken. To me, Science precedes over religion, but for some, religion is supreme. I once asked a Christian friend what he would do if a gene for homosexuality was discovered, and his response was, to my utter disbelief, "I would choose to believe the Bible".

I quite agree with your view that believing in a particular religion is highly dependent on one's place of birth, and therefore arbitrary, and in that sense not a true personal choice. If you were to pick out 10 Christians, reverse time and educate them about 20 other religions, and deprived them of any parental (or other) influence, there may well be none of them who actually choose Christianity. It is also for this reason that I cannot reconcile the fact that "God" is "all-loving" and a God of justice, when billions of people around the world may not even have had the opportunity to acquaint themselves with Christianity. Is God then allowing these people to be condemned to eternal death, while allowing salvation to those who had the benefit of parental influence from a young age?

I share your view that religion can be a powerful, destructive force, the cause of much bloodshed in the world. Even without the bloodshed, it has torn many apart as it did you and your ex-girlfriend. Many other couples have been broken apart by, or made impossible by, the fact that one party is a Christian and the other a non-Christian. If God is loving, would he stand by and watch true love be torn apart like that? Is this really what he intended for?

Having said all the above, I do not think that religion is necessarily an evil thing. I recognise the merits of religion as well - it can provide spiritual guidance and comfort to a person. There are always two sides to a coin. Much of religious morality has diffused into the secular realm of life... For better or for worse. Monogamy, for example, is largely derived from Christianity, and has certainly had a positive impact on the social fabric. Then again, some of the values borrowed from the religion have unduly marginalised certain groups of people, homosexuals being one good example.

Like you, I am studying in university, with exams coming up pretty soon, so after reading snippets of your writing, I wanted to put off reading the rest of it to another day, and write you a response only when I have the time. But something in me pushed me to read on. Your writing has been a comfort to me, and certainly echoes many of my thoughts (and feelings).

I thank you for your wonderful piece of writing (you write beautifully), and wish you all the best in your exams and your future.

facebook mail cont.

Hi Jansen,

I chanced upon your note, Letter to a Christian Girlfriend, and I had faced a similar but less damning dilemma. Like you, I have always questioned why love could be conditional where religion was concerned. Many a time I am tempted to convert to what you call a half-past six Christian, simply because it seems to open doors into girls' hearts, amongst other things, and make life that much easier. But my moral and intellectual conscience begs me to stay. I cannot offer you anything except the knowledge that someone else understands where you are coming from.

Regards.

facebook mail cont.

I came to know about you through your facebook note. I'm sorry to hear about what happened between you and your ex-girlfriend, and I hope your wounds will heal.

Just a little introduction about myself: I'm XXX, and I'm a Christian who have recently began to question my own faith. I totally sympathize with your skepticism towards Christianity, and I totally understand your need to express how you feel towards the relationship and her faith. I wish I have simple answers to offer you, but unfortunately I don't.

Like you, I like to express my thoughts in writing, and I myself have received flak for blogging about my thoughts. There were times where I would question my own pastor in my blog, and of course, you can imagine the backlash. Even when I question the Bible and what it says, there are people who would accuse of of "stumbling" young believers and causing them to lose their faith.

Suffice to say, I ask many of the same questions that you do. While I have some insights to offer, that's not what I'm here to do. I'm just writing as a stranger to offer my support to you. Nobody should remove or undermine your right to question, and if you ask me, I'd take skepticism over blind faith any day.

However, I'm just wondering if you've ever thought about where skepticism ends for you? I guess we would end up extremely cynical and pessimistic about life if we engage in mindless skepticism just as we would become blinded by unquestioning faith. My thinking is that there's always room in life for belief. I'm just curious as to where you would draw the line.

cont

One more thing I'd like to add: I can't say that I understand the pain of breakup that you're going through, but I myself have a girlfriend who is definitely more pious and faithful than I am. I consider myself some sort of an agnostic with a Christian identity at this point of time. I would be devastated if my girlfriend were to break up with me over the same reasons.

facebook mail cont.

Hi Jansen,

A Singapore-based friend (I think he's a mutual friend of yours) sent me the link to your note. I'd just like to thank you for a thought-provoking read. It really made my day.

I'm sorry to hear what your ex put you through in the name of what is, essentially, fantasy. It's sad that she felt she needed something more from her partner, even though you seem like an entirely decent human being.

Despite my atheism, I respect religious people's wishes to surround themselves with like-minded folk. Just like I have a need for friends to empathise with my creative spirit, Christians need religious spiritual guidance from their peers. It's unfortunate that your ex ultimately deemed you useless spiritually, even if your brand of moral guidance took a different form to her own.

I feel fortunate not to have faced your dilemma as I've always dated atheists, agnostics, or people who, at most, considered themselves cultural Christians, etc. And those who weren't atheist certainly didn't expect me to change my views for them.

I suspect this is because my fervently atheist dad is perhaps my strongest role model, and that I subconsciously compare every potential partner to him (not that they have to be embarrassingly dorky middle-aged men, but in terms of similar humanist values), or at least contemplate whether or not I'd feel proud to introduce them to my father. Freud would have a field day with me!

Anyway, you're probably sick of feedback, so I'll leave it at that. Hope you meet a lovely atheist or open-minded religious girl one day. :)

facebook mail

Hi,

We've never met, I've never even been to Singapore, but I just read this and just wanted to say that it's one of the most well constructed, well thought out pieces of writing on this topic that I have had the pleasure of reading in a long while. I can see you put a lot of effort into it. Whoever that girl is I really hope she knows what she's missing, you clearly went to great lengths to understand her religious side for the sake of the relationship. That is something many people would not do. I also respect your unwillingness to compromise your own ideals even when faced with what I can only imagine was a gut-wrenching decision.

I hope you can find a way to move forward soon.

poetry - a divine gift?

God-less

They came here to share
What One had spoken
They told me that all wrongs
Would now be forgiven

I heard how they called
To faces unseen
Their voices sang praises
Both aloud and within

They asked for me to pray
They asked for me to try
They offered me new ways
To leave my doubts behind

I looked upon their faces
I could see no lie
I smiled my awkward answer
But envied their burning eyes

I played my part and followed
I stepped on to their beats
A heart that once was hollow
Is trying to be complete

Alas, their faces have shown
That I did not do well
I could not hide my yearning gaze
My struggles they could tell

There were so many questions
That kept my door closed tight
I've had too many friends
Like reason, doubt and pride

I parted feeling God-less
Not fit or meant-to-be
I wondered about my lost ticket
For their spritirual journey

For them it must be simple
A complete divine surrender
I wondered how I should have felt
When I received their offer

Should I stop this believing
In all that's here and now?
Could I ever give up this magic
Through reason which I've found?

One day Love came around the same
And offered me her ways
Again I smiled my answer
To her come-what-may

Alas and again we parted
My door stood tightly shut
Her key could not undo the hurt
Or fill a missing part

I swore I'd not do this again
She swore she'd never stop
A promise to keep trying
Like waves against the rocks

Could love and God be one
My door has kept shut out?
Condemned to search an eternity
Before the key is found?

Today I still feel God-less
Not fit or meant-to-be
I wonder about my lost ticket
And Love's promise to me

by June Kiat aka madpoet
http://madpatchwork.blogspot.com/2010/03/god-less.html

i respect. i can give no higher praise.